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Technical Info: 2nd Gen 12 VALVE DRIVETRAIN Technical discussion of second generation (1994 - 1998) 12-valve engine and drivetrain questions, solutions and upgrades.
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Old 08-14-2013
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Default Help with timing please

Just acquired a new old truck, 96 4wd dually with a 5 spd. Seriously lacking in power with a load, starts hard so I figured I would check the timing. I had a hard time finding tdc with the plunger on the back of the timing case. After rotating the motor back and forth several times I thought I had it, reset the timing to 13.5 degrees (was set at 21). Apparently I wasn't at tdc because now it's retarded, white smoke, stumbling all over itself.
Is there another way to find tdc? I think the end is rounded off on the plunger or it's damaged somehow. Can I pull it all the way out or does it have a flange on the inside of the case?
Oh btw, its a CPL2175 motor (215hp) and I'm using a dial indicator on the injection pump to check timing. Lift was at .25 (I thought), set it to .20. I suppose I could set it back to where it was with the tdc mark I have, but I still wouldn't be sure if it's right.

Once I get that done I need to figure out the fuel plate, I've never messed with one, but the guy said it had one in it and his grandfather "slid it back" (?) before he gave him the truck.

Also today I noticed the overflow valve has a hose fitting on it, not sure where the hose goes but my other 12 valve didn't have that, any input?
Thanks in advance.





i
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'99 Dodge 3500 QC 4X4, 5spd w/Fast Coolers & fully splined mainshaft, Microtuner, boost fooler, 4" exhaust, BHAF, egt, boost & fuel pressure gauges, pac brake.

(New Project)1998 2wd dually 12 valve, auto. Banks stinger kit (woohoo!) under construction SOLD

(New older project) 1996 4wd extended cab dually 280K, 5spd. 4:10 gears. Timing at 15 degrees, 4" straight pipe, BHAF, Glowshift gauges SOLD

2008 Megacab 4X4 Dually, DPF delete, HRS tuner.
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Old 08-15-2013
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You can use the valve overlap method to find TDC (google it and you will even find videos). Another way to find TDC is to pull #1 injector and use a wood dowel to show when the piston is at the top. The plunger lift should be at 5.25mm for the timing to be at 15*. TIMING CHART Far as tthe fuel plate, pull the AFC and you will see two screws. Loosen the two screws and slide the plat to the front a little. You may even want to pull the plate to see what profile it is. Most guys go with a 100 profile and seem to run it about 3/4 of the way forward.
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1996 2500 2wd auto club cab #100 plate 3/4 forward, AFC full forward, timing at 16.5*, Piers upgraded turbo, 15" glasspack muffler. Pyro, Boost, Tranny Temp Gauges 3.54 rears, air bags, 15k 5th wheel hitch for 28' Dutchmen, 16' aluminum boat behind
Now Running Propane!!
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Old 08-15-2013
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Okay, so the lift on the injector piston doesn't increase after tdc? That'll be easy. Thanks.
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'99 Dodge 3500 QC 4X4, 5spd w/Fast Coolers & fully splined mainshaft, Microtuner, boost fooler, 4" exhaust, BHAF, egt, boost & fuel pressure gauges, pac brake.

(New Project)1998 2wd dually 12 valve, auto. Banks stinger kit (woohoo!) under construction SOLD

(New older project) 1996 4wd extended cab dually 280K, 5spd. 4:10 gears. Timing at 15 degrees, 4" straight pipe, BHAF, Glowshift gauges SOLD

2008 Megacab 4X4 Dually, DPF delete, HRS tuner.
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Old 08-15-2013
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Paul, what I have found that makes it easier is to get the plunger lift to where you want it then pop the gear and rotate the engine back to slightly past TDC then rotate the engine back to TDC (that removes the gear lash). Then tighten the pump gear and you are all set!
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1996 2500 2wd auto club cab #100 plate 3/4 forward, AFC full forward, timing at 16.5*, Piers upgraded turbo, 15" glasspack muffler. Pyro, Boost, Tranny Temp Gauges 3.54 rears, air bags, 15k 5th wheel hitch for 28' Dutchmen, 16' aluminum boat behind
Now Running Propane!!
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Old 08-15-2013
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Yeah, that's how I've done it in the past. Just could not find the hole in the back of the timing gear to save my life. Seemed like the plunger hit something, but would never go in much.
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'99 Dodge 3500 QC 4X4, 5spd w/Fast Coolers & fully splined mainshaft, Microtuner, boost fooler, 4" exhaust, BHAF, egt, boost & fuel pressure gauges, pac brake.

(New Project)1998 2wd dually 12 valve, auto. Banks stinger kit (woohoo!) under construction SOLD

(New older project) 1996 4wd extended cab dually 280K, 5spd. 4:10 gears. Timing at 15 degrees, 4" straight pipe, BHAF, Glowshift gauges SOLD

2008 Megacab 4X4 Dually, DPF delete, HRS tuner.
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Old 08-15-2013
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I've been thinking about it, let's say my timing is set at 11 degrees, if I use the method of finding tdc by rotating the motor until the #1 injector plunger is at the top of the lobe, I will have gone PAST tdc, since it would have been at tdc with .157 lift (per my chart). That's how the timing is adjusted, by setting the #1 injector plunger for the proper lift on the lobe. The plunger continues to lift after tdc, allowing for adjustment for more advanced timing. I'll look into the valve overlap method.
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'99 Dodge 3500 QC 4X4, 5spd w/Fast Coolers & fully splined mainshaft, Microtuner, boost fooler, 4" exhaust, BHAF, egt, boost & fuel pressure gauges, pac brake.

(New Project)1998 2wd dually 12 valve, auto. Banks stinger kit (woohoo!) under construction SOLD

(New older project) 1996 4wd extended cab dually 280K, 5spd. 4:10 gears. Timing at 15 degrees, 4" straight pipe, BHAF, Glowshift gauges SOLD

2008 Megacab 4X4 Dually, DPF delete, HRS tuner.
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Old 08-15-2013
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Ok, I'll eat crow. I don't understand it, but after some research it appears that you're right Tom, sorry I doubted you! I also found one post that says #2 exhaust valve is open at tdc. Can't wait to work on it Saturday, get the timing done then check out the fuel plate.
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'99 Dodge 3500 QC 4X4, 5spd w/Fast Coolers & fully splined mainshaft, Microtuner, boost fooler, 4" exhaust, BHAF, egt, boost & fuel pressure gauges, pac brake.

(New Project)1998 2wd dually 12 valve, auto. Banks stinger kit (woohoo!) under construction SOLD

(New older project) 1996 4wd extended cab dually 280K, 5spd. 4:10 gears. Timing at 15 degrees, 4" straight pipe, BHAF, Glowshift gauges SOLD

2008 Megacab 4X4 Dually, DPF delete, HRS tuner.
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  #8  
Old 08-15-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Misner View Post
it appears that you're right Tom, sorry I doubted you!
Geez, Paul, I didn't even realize you had some doubt!! Thank you anyways!!LOL
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1996 2500 2wd auto club cab #100 plate 3/4 forward, AFC full forward, timing at 16.5*, Piers upgraded turbo, 15" glasspack muffler. Pyro, Boost, Tranny Temp Gauges 3.54 rears, air bags, 15k 5th wheel hitch for 28' Dutchmen, 16' aluminum boat behind
Now Running Propane!!
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  #9  
Old 08-25-2013
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Well I finally got it timed right today. FYI, the motor is NOT at tdc when you reach the top of the cam lobe with the #1 injector plunger.
After timing it FOUR times and still having sky high egt's, I pulled the plunger out of the back of the timing case. No wonder I was having a hard time finding the hole in the timing gear, the end was sheared off! So, standing on my head with a flashlight and a mirror, while slowly rotating the motor, (I have six arms ya know), I finally found the hole in the timing gear (with the end of the plunger still in it). It's timed right now. What a PITA.
__________________
'99 Dodge 3500 QC 4X4, 5spd w/Fast Coolers & fully splined mainshaft, Microtuner, boost fooler, 4" exhaust, BHAF, egt, boost & fuel pressure gauges, pac brake.

(New Project)1998 2wd dually 12 valve, auto. Banks stinger kit (woohoo!) under construction SOLD

(New older project) 1996 4wd extended cab dually 280K, 5spd. 4:10 gears. Timing at 15 degrees, 4" straight pipe, BHAF, Glowshift gauges SOLD

2008 Megacab 4X4 Dually, DPF delete, HRS tuner.
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  #10  
Old 08-27-2013
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I am glad you got it done! Now that you learned a bit about the process the next one will be a lot easier!!!
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1996 2500 2wd auto club cab #100 plate 3/4 forward, AFC full forward, timing at 16.5*, Piers upgraded turbo, 15" glasspack muffler. Pyro, Boost, Tranny Temp Gauges 3.54 rears, air bags, 15k 5th wheel hitch for 28' Dutchmen, 16' aluminum boat behind
Now Running Propane!!
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