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  #1  
Old 10-23-2011
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smokediver smokediver is offline
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Default Fire truck won"t start !!

Ok, it starts, but it's been hesitant lately, and I've sent so many things to the shop they just ignore me now.

It's a 95 model Cummins M11, and it has had longer crank times for a few months now.
Sometimes it "sputtters" to life, and occasionally it will idle up to about 1000rpm for a couple seconds after startup.
It does seem to be worse when it sits longer, and will sometimes give a little diesel smoke at startup.

Don't know if they're related, but if it idles for more than 15-20 minutes it will blow light oil smoke on takeoff.
The dipstick city mechanic says that's normal, but this truck didn't do that a year ago.
I uses a small amount of oil as most HD engines do, nothing alarming, but then it is 16 years old and only has 76,000 miles on it, but 7800 hrs.

It gets oily just a little around the 3 & 4 exhaust ports as well, has done that for a long while,
and 6 months back it left a nice puddle on the ground at a 8 hr fire scene.
The puddle did drip from the dipstick, and they blamed it on a faulty "O"ring, hmmm.
It doesn't leak there anymore since they epoxied it in

Power is down a small to moderate amount. If you drive er easy you probably wouldn't notice, but when you want it to giddyup, it takes half a mile to hit 50mph. We're talking 330hp, 1200+Tq, & a 5 speed allison on a 30,000# truck

My theory, compromised rings in 2 cylinders, and a leaky injector.
Wouldn't a leaking injector let rail pressure drop while sitting, leave excess fuel in the cylinder for startup, causing all sorts of weird issues?
I know I've read that bad injectors can cause starting issues in the 3rd gens, but I've never owned one.

I want some qualified opinions before I go tell the city mechanic he ain't worth his wrenches...
They think I don't know what the heck I'm talking about.

Thanks
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Deleted, h&s programmer, jasper turbo, ETE tranny, 400k mi !!
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Stock, until...
My Other Truck is a Fire Engine!!

Last edited by smokediver; 10-23-2011 at 02:17 PM..
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Old 10-23-2011
bamacat bamacat is offline
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The life of an engine in an emergency vehicle seems pretty tough. Run up to full power/load with little to no warm up, excessive idling, stop and go on the way back in . Probably ready for an overhaul or at least a top end job [rings,deglaze or liner kits ,valves and guides] and injector /pump swap..
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Old 10-23-2011
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Are you the driver Smokediver ? That could explain a lot, after all, look at what you did to your tractor ! Just kidding.
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Old 10-23-2011
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Small taters, all it needs is MAXsticks & Evil Twins.
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Old 10-23-2011
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This one is for RAF as he's the most experianced with these. I'm sure he will reply in the morning
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Old 10-23-2011
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smokediver smokediver is offline
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Why yes, yes I am the driver
But I treat this truck like it was my grandmothers Buick cause lives depend on it,
AND because if you scratch it , you pay for it, and I don't make that much to start with.
but not everyone is as sensitive to its needs as I am.

Clunk, THAT WOULD BE SO AWESOME, For Sure !!

Bamacat, you are right, but there are ways to soften the blow if you care to.
There are drivers who don't have a clue, and never drove anything bigger than a pickup till this.
I've seen them start the truck and immediately race the engine dumb ar$ es
All they know is they get to drive as fast as they can go as long as they don't kill anyone.

Personally, I head for the truck as soon as the tone goes off, open the door and start the engine before I ever climb in.
I know it's only a few seconds, probably 20-30 really before everyone is on board, but at least the oil gets a full pass before it ever moves, and it idles out the door.

The electronic controlled engines never crank like the old Macks, one revolution and they're running,
but this one isn't acting right and I know it.
I told the city mechanic I knew "this truck" better than he did, almost started a fight

Oh, the oil is around 4 & 5, not 3 & 4.
__________________
'07, megacab, 2WD, Dually, 6.7, auto,
Deleted, h&s programmer, jasper turbo, ETE tranny, 400k mi !!
'09, quad cab, Laramie, 2WD, Dually, 6.7, auto. 255k mi
Stock, until...
My Other Truck is a Fire Engine!!

Last edited by smokediver; 10-23-2011 at 09:59 PM..
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Old 10-23-2011
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Sorry I may have missed it but is this still the PT fuel system or is it electronic?
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Old 10-24-2011
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I'm not real familiar with M 11s, not a lot of people like them nor want to work on them. It's a wierd engine & a PIA to work on.

It sounds like an injector problem on those 2 cylinders. Excess fuel & soot can look like oil seeping out. If they are leaking bad enough, it could be a little oil seeping out too because the excess fuel is washing the cylinder.

Those injectors are electronic, but are mecanically operated by a pushrod & rocker lever off the cam. There is an adjustment on the injector rockers.

There shouldn't be any oil blowing out of the dipstick. There is a seal or o ring on it, but if it leaked oil out, that's not good. How's the oil look, is it overfilled any?
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Old 10-24-2011
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smokediver smokediver is offline
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I actually helped overhaul one once, so I know what you mean about the extra rocker and the injectors.

I hadn't thought of that but you're right, leaking injectors would make the exhaust ports oily.
I would agree on the dipstick as well.
Might get grimy from a bad o-ring, but shouldn't leave puddles unless there's blowby I would think.

No, it's not overfilled. I actually usually let it run just below full,
wait till it's half way to add and put in one quart, so it's at 3/4.
I can't say how often we add oil, but its not that regular. Of course, it probably averages 100-200 miles a week.

It's definately oil smoke after the idle times...smells different and looks white-gray.
A local guy told me if it buld up oil while running it has to come past the rings....is that correct?
The truck gets serviced every 5000 mi.

So what should I tell my city mechanic to get him to check into it further?
He's a nice guy, but I've noticed he's getting the don't care attitude lately.
He's more old school, thinks a diesel is supposed to smoke and leak oil.
__________________
'07, megacab, 2WD, Dually, 6.7, auto,
Deleted, h&s programmer, jasper turbo, ETE tranny, 400k mi !!
'09, quad cab, Laramie, 2WD, Dually, 6.7, auto. 255k mi
Stock, until...
My Other Truck is a Fire Engine!!

Last edited by smokediver; 10-24-2011 at 09:32 AM..
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Old 10-24-2011
RAF RAF is offline
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Got a little more info at work.

They are known to have injector problems. With that, there are 2 way to check an injector if it's firing. One is they make a tool to hold the injector rocker down & see if the cylinder stops firing. The other is with a computer. If you don't have an audible misfire, it'll be harder to find. If your mechanic does wind up changing injectors, I'd replace them all. If you don't you'll he changing the other 4 sometime down the road.


With the puking oil, it's compression getting past the rings...blow-by. Then that's what pushes the oil out. Oil smoke will be bluish. White-gray sounds more like fuel. If it has a smell like carbon...like a carbon build up if you've ever done a head gasket, then that's fuel.

Now when you said it puked some oil out at an 8 hr. fire scene, was the engine idling or was it at hi idle running the pump? Those engines don't like a lot of idling...they'll start puking oil from what I was told today.
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