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Technical Info: 2nd Gen 24 VALVE DRIVETRAIN Technical discussion of second generation (1998 - 2002) 24-valve engine and drivetrain questions, solutions and upgrades.
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  #11  
Old 04-30-2017
HerkyBird2001 HerkyBird2001 is offline
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I have been following this post for a day now. I agree with MAX on this one. You have power to you stock lift pump by the fact it is rinning during the cranking process. If it were me I would pull the fuel filter and change it. After you change the fuel filter make sure to prime fuel back to the motor. Cranking the engine WILL NOT prime this. You need to break each fuel line loose while someone is cranking the motor until you get fuel coming from each line. Just because the truck isnt starting doesn't mean you arent getting fuel in those lines. There are alot of people who have ran these trucks when the lift pump has been bad and the trucks run just run like crap (codes etc). If you have bumped the starter and seen 12psi that pump is working pretty well. So with all of this being said IMO bleed the fuel system and try again.
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  #12  
Old 04-30-2017
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Clunk Clunk is offline
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I fill the fuel filter housing 3/4 full then install the new filter to avoid an air in system issue.
To prime the system,
Charge the batteries, you're gonna be calling on them.

Be sure the fuel filter canister is full of fuel.

Disconnect the battery charger...very important.
Turn the keyswitch just enough to "bump" the starter to get The Free 25 Second Lift Pump Run.

Your lift pump pressure gauge should show 10 psi or greater.

Loosen the fittings on #1, #3 & #4 injectors with a 3/4" open end wrench.

Crank the engine for 10 seconds then check and tighten any wet, dripping fuel injector fittings.
Repeat the 10 second cranks & tighten the wet injector fittings until the engine kicks, trying to start then tighten the remaining loose fittings and start the engine.

I will go through this again soon, I'm saving up for some sac Maxsticks
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01.5,Red QC Sport SWB,HO,6spd,4x4,cowl hood, Drag Comp,4"ex., fuel press. gauge, boost&pyro gauges, bhaf, single Holley style lift pump next to the fuel tank...13psi WOT, Vulcan Big Line, cheapo fuel cooler, Amsoil in the trans. & Valvoline in the pan, jammer 100's, 62-65-.70A/R, ARP studs, kevlar/ceramic SD clutch

Time to turn so's you don't burn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cougar View Post
If you remove the gutters, you won't have to clean them. Problem solved..
True love is when she gives you the ham from her egg mcmuffin

Last edited by Clunk; 04-30-2017 at 06:31 PM..
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  #13  
Old 04-30-2017
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LITEFOOT LITEFOOT is offline
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Jerry, I finely got out the manual and I find there are two transfer power supplys feeding the lift pump circuit from the Engine Control Module, one is used during cranking the other is for running after start. They don't say which is which. They are showing pins 15 and 35 on the ECM connect to one wire to the L-pump at S160.
The connector at the pump has two wires, pin 1 is labeled power supply and pin 2 is ground.
I put a meter on both to battery ground and don't read chase ground on either.
I suppose they are calling a return line as ground in the ECM, but not necessarily chassis ground.
Jerry are you using a remote L-pmp or one on the side of the engine? Where are you splitting the feed to the L-ump? My pump is in the stock location, and hard to get to for trouble shooting. I have the connector open at the pump now and will find a small pin to insert so I can connect my meter to it to check the output of the ECM during cranking.
Sorry to be such a pain, but the more I research the more questions I have..
Paul

PS, Herkybird2001 and Clunk, during cranking is when the lift pump is not working, after cranking stops I get 25 sec. of 12 psi so starting is out.
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98 24v quad slt auto 4x4 lb,pre&post fuel filter ind. rino-liner, superchips. TBM Mechanical APPS. Borgeson steering gear. 150K, Amsoil bumper to bumper.
1983 Peugeot 505 TD 110K.

Last edited by LITEFOOT; 04-30-2017 at 08:29 PM..
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  #14  
Old 05-01-2017
JerryKlender JerryKlender is offline
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I put a big line kit in [ replaces the stock flex lines with industrial type bigger hoses, I think from Genosgarage.com at the time ] and relocated the stock Carter pump down on the frame. I extended the wires [ wire harness came with the kit ] back to the relocated pump. If I remember correctly, I only had to supply an alternative 12V to one side of the pump, it was grounded via the engine harness. It also must be grounded all the time, because I can turn the switch on without the key in the ON position and run the pump. I think one of the main problems with the stock Carter pumps is that the motor is mounted at the bottom. It is submersed in diesel along with the motor brushes on the commutator. Any moisture/crud that is coming thru the pump from the tank has the chance of accumulating in the motor area. But, I keep putting them in.... I keep saying that I will go FASS..... next time.... I will check my maint manual and my prints I made when I modified the pump circuit to make sure I did not supply a ground to the pump... and modify this email if my memory is deficient....
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Last edited by JerryKlender; 05-01-2017 at 05:58 AM..
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  #15  
Old 05-01-2017
JerryKlender JerryKlender is offline
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Picture of my switch [ BD 2-low kit just to left on firewall]. New batteries [ stock ones lasted since 2001 ]. And my truck... can't post enough tractor or Dodge/Cummins pics....
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2002 [2001.5] 2500 white CCSB 6spd/stock HO, LT285 DuraTrac's, Ford clearance lights, BD 2-low kit, Bowers idle kit, MWFI VP44@70K ,VulcanKit/StockPump, J&J Ent. SS sideboards, IssPro FP w/idget light , homemade ign.kill-key out idle-DRL-A/C defeat circuits. Amber turns. VelvetRide shackles. NV241HD, DANA80 3.55, Ziebart'd

Last edited by JerryKlender; 05-01-2017 at 07:58 AM..
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  #16  
Old 05-01-2017
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LITEFOOT LITEFOOT is offline
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Jerry, I am going to try to do the modification with the pump where it is for now.
I have the failure of the cranking power side to the pump to overcome which I think your mod. will accomplish, I think my ECM will probably need to be replaced.
According to my manual wiring digram there are two power supplies feeds in the ECM and one is not working, with your mod. I can bypass it during cranking, but I will have to doe it each start, so my switch will have to be in the cab.
I will not be able to install for a couple days, will let you know the results.
Thanks agin for the help
Good looken truck.
Paul
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98 24v quad slt auto 4x4 lb,pre&post fuel filter ind. rino-liner, superchips. TBM Mechanical APPS. Borgeson steering gear. 150K, Amsoil bumper to bumper.
1983 Peugeot 505 TD 110K.
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  #17  
Old 05-01-2017
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My lift pump doesn't run while trying to start the engine either, and it starts very quick.
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01.5,Red QC Sport SWB,HO,6spd,4x4,cowl hood, Drag Comp,4"ex., fuel press. gauge, boost&pyro gauges, bhaf, single Holley style lift pump next to the fuel tank...13psi WOT, Vulcan Big Line, cheapo fuel cooler, Amsoil in the trans. & Valvoline in the pan, jammer 100's, 62-65-.70A/R, ARP studs, kevlar/ceramic SD clutch

Time to turn so's you don't burn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cougar View Post
If you remove the gutters, you won't have to clean them. Problem solved..
True love is when she gives you the ham from her egg mcmuffin
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  #18  
Old 05-02-2017
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MAXTORQ MAXTORQ is offline
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Lift pump will NOT run during the crank process.

Bump starter verify pressure of pressure is good. During a cranking process crack each injector of no fuel is present then the VP is bad. If not fuel pressure is present at the VP then the lift pump is bad.

Check for codes.
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  #19  
Old 05-08-2017
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LITEFOOT LITEFOOT is offline
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Ref. post #13, read manual and it has some good info.
#1there are two power supplies for the lift pump out of the ECM.
One supplies (on my truck) 8.4 VDC when key is turned on.
and also during cranking. mine does this.
#2 When the key is released but still on the voltage goes to 12.3 VDC
and runs for 25 seconds, then drops back to 8.4 VDC.
#3 manual says I should have min. 7 PSI during cranking and min. 12 PSI
after cranking for 25 seconds.
My lift pump shows 0 PSI during cranking, but when I quit cranking the
pressure climbs to 30 PSI for the 25 seconds then goes to 0 PSI.
So It seems my lift pump is not working during the 8.4 VDC cycles.
So I am pretty sure it's the lift pump failure. I think if the engine starts the
lift pump will continue to receive the 12.3VDC and continue to produce
12 PSI or more depending on the pump.
Will do some experimenting before I change the pump.
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98 24v quad slt auto 4x4 lb,pre&post fuel filter ind. rino-liner, superchips. TBM Mechanical APPS. Borgeson steering gear. 150K, Amsoil bumper to bumper.
1983 Peugeot 505 TD 110K.
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  #20  
Old 05-26-2017
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LITEFOOT LITEFOOT is offline
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I put in a Fass DRP, did not fix my problem. But raised more questions.
When I get some answers I'll post them.
paul
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98 24v quad slt auto 4x4 lb,pre&post fuel filter ind. rino-liner, superchips. TBM Mechanical APPS. Borgeson steering gear. 150K, Amsoil bumper to bumper.
1983 Peugeot 505 TD 110K.
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