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Technical Info: 2nd Gen 24 VALVE DRIVETRAIN Technical discussion of second generation (1998 - 2002) 24-valve engine and drivetrain questions, solutions and upgrades.
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Old 06-15-2004
Ram44maR Ram44maR is offline
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Default Good ol' 47RE shift problem

Hello out there in RAMland,

I recently experienced a shifting problem with my 47RE. The symptoms were trouble shifting from 1st to 2nd [for about 0.7 miles from initial startup], constant ABS and BRAKE warning lights and intermittent speedometer operation [would not indicate any speed until the tranny actually shifted to 2nd]. Once the tranny made the 1st shift, it would start to shift--but 1st to 2nd was still not occuring at normal shift speed/RPM.

In short, I replaced the VSS [aka Rear Wheel Speed Sensor] with Mopar part number 05014787AA, which they refer to as a Rear Wheel Speed Sensor (WSS) Replacement Kit. After removing both battery ground terminals for about one hour and replacing them, the ABS and BRAKE warning lights immediately extinguished, and the speedometer appears to be working fine.

Unfortunately, the tranny still has difficulty shifting from 1st to 2nd for about the first 0.3 miles from cold take-off. Once that first shift occurs, the tranny shifts like brand new [including 1st to 2nd].

Although the new VSS corrected some of the problems we were having, I still have to figure out the problem I'm having when it's cold. Any thoughts?
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98.5 24v 2500 Laramie SLT Quad SB 4x4 47RE: 1" fuel pickup, DPP FASS & RV275s [About 65,000 KDP-less miles [img]/forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] ]. White on tan leather, Black Westin nerf bars & brush guard in front of eye brows. White tubular bed rails over 33s on aluminum wheels.
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Old 06-15-2004
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TrailRider TrailRider is offline
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Default Re: Good ol' 47RE shift problem

Hello Ram44,and welcome to the Dieselram forum!
Your trouble sounds like it could be a couple of other (hopefully minor) possibilities as well:

1) - Throttle position sensor going bad/or dirty contacts.

2) - The PCM is getting altzheimers disease,and forgetting how to shift,which needs to be re-flashed at the dealer($35 bucks avg cost for the reflash)

3) - The negative Battery cables are in need of a secondary ground to the frame. Grounding seems to be an issue in some early 24V trucks.

4) - Check PCM ground strap connections(directly behind air cleaner housing,bolted on firewall) to make sure they're tight and free from corrosion.

I would reccomend having the dealer re-flash the PCM first,and go from there. I had mine done at around 75K for overdrive torque converter lockup problems. Cost me 35 bucks for re-flash.

Good Luck, Hope this works out. Let us know! . [img]/forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] [img]/forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
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Mods: Custom built GB trans, & T/C | aFe stage II /PG 7 airfilter | aFe Blade Runner Intake Manifold| DSS | HRVP44 | 3rd Gen track bar kit | FASS 150 | Smarty | MagHytec rearend cover | SPS 62/14 turbo | HX40 Downpipe | HTT quickspool exhaust manifold | DDP 110HP sticks | FIrestone airbags | Quadzilla Adrenaline | Magnaflow 4" stainless exh | Leer cap | Bilstien HD shocks | Garmin GPS | Cobra 200 GTL DX CB
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Old 06-15-2004
Ram44maR Ram44maR is offline
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Default Re: Good ol' 47RE shift problem

Thank you Trailrider,

I'll go through the list one by one.

About the TPS...is there info available on how to clean the throttle position sensor? Is the TPS the same as the APPS [Accelerator Pedal Postition Sensor]? If so, I know it to be located on driver's side front of the engine above the VP44, next to the valve cover. Does this sound correct?

Thanks again,
Bill
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98.5 24v 2500 Laramie SLT Quad SB 4x4 47RE: 1" fuel pickup, DPP FASS & RV275s [About 65,000 KDP-less miles [img]/forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] ]. White on tan leather, Black Westin nerf bars & brush guard in front of eye brows. White tubular bed rails over 33s on aluminum wheels.
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Old 06-17-2004
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TimHolt TimHolt is offline
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Default Re: Good ol' 47RE shift problem

RAM, How many mile are on your truck? These RE transmissions have a problem with the governor pressure sensor, the readings to the computer become eratic at a given pressure. At about 50,000 miles or more (I have seen at lot less on some) they will start to give problems. If the readings are short enough in intervals or not varied enough from the expected pressure it wont set a code but it will certianly give the shift problems. I have replaced these 15 to 1 of the TPS. You will have to have a scanner on the truck during a test drive and experince the problems to see the readings and verify the fault. These litle pressure sensors are in such high demand that my parts guy cant get enough of them and constantly runs out of them!

The one on my truck went south at 6000 miles, currently have 51,000 on it now and is allready starting to have the problem again during my vacation. Will hook up to it monday and verify it again.
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The mods I talk about here is for information purposes only. I experiment on my own vehicles but do not endorse the modifications that I make to my vehicles to be used on others. If you use this info that I talk about, you use it at your own risk and responsibility.

03 Dodge 4X4 quad cab Dually. Two travel trailers, 1 cargo trailer. Lots of ham radios. Call sign N5ZYK Tech class. On 28.300 to 28.500 around 10:00 AM to 2:00PM every sunday.
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Old 06-18-2004
Ram44maR Ram44maR is offline
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Default Re: Good ol' 47RE shift problem

Hello Tim,

Thanks very much for the input. My SLT has just over 65,000 miles now.

Is the "governor pressure sensor" you're referring to also known as the Transmission Temperature Sensor? If so, can you give me some idea where it's located on the 47RE? Although I've become quite familiar with the Cummins TD [especially with fuel supply/filtration issues], I'm just getting my feet wet with the 47RE [img]/forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img] [img]/forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

By the way, are you saying that you've experienced problems with this particular sensor 15 times more often than with the APPS [Throttle Position Sensor]? If the sensor you're referring to is the temp sensor, that would make a lot of sense--because once my tranny is warm, the friggin thing shifts like the day I bought it.

Have a great one,
Bill [img]/forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif[/img]
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98.5 24v 2500 Laramie SLT Quad SB 4x4 47RE: 1" fuel pickup, DPP FASS & RV275s [About 65,000 KDP-less miles [img]/forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] ]. White on tan leather, Black Westin nerf bars & brush guard in front of eye brows. White tubular bed rails over 33s on aluminum wheels.
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  #6  
Old 06-21-2004
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TimHolt TimHolt is offline
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Default Re: Good ol' 47RE shift problem

The Governor pressure sensor has the temp sensor in it on the later 4 wire plug thats on the sensor. The earlier sensor is a 3 wire and the temp sensor is a part of the wiring harness. You will have to pull the pan and look at the sensors next to the filter. The one pointing straight down is the gov pressure solonoid and the one sideways is the sensor. There are three types of this sensor, 3 wire oval plug, 4 wire oval plug and a 4 wire flat plug. These are not interchangeable and must be replaced with the exact type removed. The gov solonoid is the same all years. You will need a 25 torx male socket and a 7/16 socket, remove the 4 bolts on the sensor block and the 2 25 torx screws, remove the gasket from the block and lift out the small spring clip that retains the sensor and pull it out, reverse procedure to install. About 30 mins to replace once the pan is off. Note the filter type and go ahead and replace while your there. I allways replace the solonoid as well when I do these but since both of these parts run about 100 bucks each on the average you might want to try the most commonly failed part first, the sensor.
I have had guys replace the APPS or TPS several times, replace the APPS/TPS wiring harness and replace the PCM over this little sensor when the problem was just that. I looked over our parts purchase over the last 3 years just for the one store I'm in and have replaced 563 of these sensors and 9 APPS/TPS sensors. These little buggers have a high failure rate. Find someone that knows how to stream data off your truck while on a test drive and verify the desired pressure against the actuall pressure and it should match within 1 to 1 1/2 pound below 45 mph. The data feed on those numbers should be smooth, any jumping around on the actual pressure and its a bad sensor. Dont be fooled about just a code scan, this problem can still be there without generating a code, The sensor practiclally has to fail completely before setting a code, some never do and it just becomes annoying. The best way is streaming data on the test drive when you most likely are going to experince the problem.
__________________
The mods I talk about here is for information purposes only. I experiment on my own vehicles but do not endorse the modifications that I make to my vehicles to be used on others. If you use this info that I talk about, you use it at your own risk and responsibility.

03 Dodge 4X4 quad cab Dually. Two travel trailers, 1 cargo trailer. Lots of ham radios. Call sign N5ZYK Tech class. On 28.300 to 28.500 around 10:00 AM to 2:00PM every sunday.
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